As someone who has written about the ups and downs of industrial policy in Japan I remain skeptical about invoking it as a way forward for the American economy. To some extent the notion that the Ministry of Trade and Industry actually successfully carried out industrial policy - picking winners and losers, creating semi-public/semi-private companies like the JEEC corporation that purchased computers from Japanese electronics companies then rented out their services (thereby beating IBM at its own game), managing gluts in certain sectors like textiles - is overblown. MITI never supported the Japanese automobile industry; it was beaten in court by some of the iron and steel companies that opposed supply management; it promoted the airplane industry that proved to be a flop. The general consensus is that it was somewhat successful during the Miracle Growth phase (1950s and 1960s), becoming an actual impediment to Japanese economic performance thereafter. Why? Because government bureaucrats are relatively inexperienced in evaluating innovations that actually work in the market. A classic case in point is the attempt by METI (the renamed MITI) to promote an operating system for Japan that would only work there, effectively locking out Microsoft and Apple. Another example is the triumph of the Japanese video game and anime sector, something METI eventually touted with its "Cool Japan" movement. The fact is MITI/METI has gone out of its way to claim credit for things that it never did. METI never promoted cool Japan businesses when they were getting off the ground just as it never say a future for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Isuzu, and Mitsubishi Motors,
Was this a paid guest post? I felt like I was getting pitched rather than being genuinely challenged or persuaded.
I was hoping to have my views challenged in a smart, engaged way as I've been skeptical of any sort of feasibility and the general reasonableness of the GND.
I think I would have been much more likely to feel that way if Noah had more input than teeing up talking points and setting up seeming strawmen to knock down.
Normally love your posts Noah, unfortunately this one didn't hit for me.
I know you're likely trying to allow your interviewees space to present their views, but I think they'd be more persuasive with a realistic foil.
The notion of democratic industrialism is great, and I enjoyed this interview a lot, but I can’t shake the feeling that this whole space of ideas is too much like Bernie’s 2016 platform — 20th century solutions for the 21st century. Ignoring automation doesn’t seem like the best way to help people and rebuild a functional society in the long term. Ignoring the right-tail biases inherent in jobs associated with scaling new tech (and the existing economy) isn’t honest. A grand plan that takes 20-30 years to get us where we should already be just doesn’t feel like a reliable path to a good future.
This was a beautiful interview! I really appreciate you reaching out to people who work behind the scenes in politics to produce the various movements we see today. As an aspiring politician and economist, this really gave me hope for not just for me but for our entire country. Thank you Noah and keep them coming!
The chakrbarty says he doesn't lk to be label ,but out of the blue names Modi as right-wing when in ground reality here he's more centerists nd the opposition here(India) ranges from far-right to far left.India was under pure crony capitalism during Congress rule with new scams by politicians every single day.so yeah "world's right is India's left".
This guy claims to have written the Green New Deal??? US Green Party candidates had been promoting & running on identical/similar platforms for years before this.
Wiki:
"United States
Early efforts
In 2006, a Green New Deal was created by the Green New Deal Task Force as a plan for one hundred percent clean, renewable energy by 2030 utilizing a carbon tax, a jobs guarantee, free college, single-payer healthcare, and a focus on using public programs.[56][57][58]
Since 2006, the Green New Deal has been included in the platforms of multiple Green Party candidates, such as Howie Hawkins' gubernatorial campaigns in 2010, 2014, and 2018, and Jill Stein's 2012 and 2016 presidential campaigns.[57]"
The idea originated in 2009 by Edward Barbier in 2009. In 2010, Howie Hawkins ran for NYS Governor as the Green Party candidate advocating the GND (Hawkins was the 2020 GP Presidential candidate). Credit should be given where it is due.
My finder came up empty looking for the word "forests" in this interview which is disturbing. I'm one of many who are promoting proforestation and a halt to commercial logging on public lands so that trees, understory and forest soils can continue the critical work of capturing CO2 emissions undisturbed. The GND Resolution now in Congress only addresses "reforestation" and vague references to "forest protection". That's not acceptable and leaves the door open for business-as-usual by industrial logging operations in the midst of the Climate Crisis.
One thing:
- Hell yeah for this guy and his ambitious optimism!
This is a fantastic interview. It further convinces me that the only way forward for the Democrats is to re-embrace the economic legacy of FDR.
Made my day.
As someone who has written about the ups and downs of industrial policy in Japan I remain skeptical about invoking it as a way forward for the American economy. To some extent the notion that the Ministry of Trade and Industry actually successfully carried out industrial policy - picking winners and losers, creating semi-public/semi-private companies like the JEEC corporation that purchased computers from Japanese electronics companies then rented out their services (thereby beating IBM at its own game), managing gluts in certain sectors like textiles - is overblown. MITI never supported the Japanese automobile industry; it was beaten in court by some of the iron and steel companies that opposed supply management; it promoted the airplane industry that proved to be a flop. The general consensus is that it was somewhat successful during the Miracle Growth phase (1950s and 1960s), becoming an actual impediment to Japanese economic performance thereafter. Why? Because government bureaucrats are relatively inexperienced in evaluating innovations that actually work in the market. A classic case in point is the attempt by METI (the renamed MITI) to promote an operating system for Japan that would only work there, effectively locking out Microsoft and Apple. Another example is the triumph of the Japanese video game and anime sector, something METI eventually touted with its "Cool Japan" movement. The fact is MITI/METI has gone out of its way to claim credit for things that it never did. METI never promoted cool Japan businesses when they were getting off the ground just as it never say a future for Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Isuzu, and Mitsubishi Motors,
Carl Mosk
I thought it was a great interview. So far your interviews have been awesome. Keep up the good work.
Was this a paid guest post? I felt like I was getting pitched rather than being genuinely challenged or persuaded.
I was hoping to have my views challenged in a smart, engaged way as I've been skeptical of any sort of feasibility and the general reasonableness of the GND.
I think I would have been much more likely to feel that way if Noah had more input than teeing up talking points and setting up seeming strawmen to knock down.
Normally love your posts Noah, unfortunately this one didn't hit for me.
I know you're likely trying to allow your interviewees space to present their views, but I think they'd be more persuasive with a realistic foil.
The notion of democratic industrialism is great, and I enjoyed this interview a lot, but I can’t shake the feeling that this whole space of ideas is too much like Bernie’s 2016 platform — 20th century solutions for the 21st century. Ignoring automation doesn’t seem like the best way to help people and rebuild a functional society in the long term. Ignoring the right-tail biases inherent in jobs associated with scaling new tech (and the existing economy) isn’t honest. A grand plan that takes 20-30 years to get us where we should already be just doesn’t feel like a reliable path to a good future.
I want to see us to reach even further.
This was a beautiful interview! I really appreciate you reaching out to people who work behind the scenes in politics to produce the various movements we see today. As an aspiring politician and economist, this really gave me hope for not just for me but for our entire country. Thank you Noah and keep them coming!
The chakrbarty says he doesn't lk to be label ,but out of the blue names Modi as right-wing when in ground reality here he's more centerists nd the opposition here(India) ranges from far-right to far left.India was under pure crony capitalism during Congress rule with new scams by politicians every single day.so yeah "world's right is India's left".
This guy claims to have written the Green New Deal??? US Green Party candidates had been promoting & running on identical/similar platforms for years before this.
Wiki:
"United States
Early efforts
In 2006, a Green New Deal was created by the Green New Deal Task Force as a plan for one hundred percent clean, renewable energy by 2030 utilizing a carbon tax, a jobs guarantee, free college, single-payer healthcare, and a focus on using public programs.[56][57][58]
Since 2006, the Green New Deal has been included in the platforms of multiple Green Party candidates, such as Howie Hawkins' gubernatorial campaigns in 2010, 2014, and 2018, and Jill Stein's 2012 and 2016 presidential campaigns.[57]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal
The idea originated in 2009 by Edward Barbier in 2009. In 2010, Howie Hawkins ran for NYS Governor as the Green Party candidate advocating the GND (Hawkins was the 2020 GP Presidential candidate). Credit should be given where it is due.
Following up on proforestation > https://e360.yale.edu/features/why-keeping-mature-forests-intact-is-key-to-the-climate-fight
My finder came up empty looking for the word "forests" in this interview which is disturbing. I'm one of many who are promoting proforestation and a halt to commercial logging on public lands so that trees, understory and forest soils can continue the critical work of capturing CO2 emissions undisturbed. The GND Resolution now in Congress only addresses "reforestation" and vague references to "forest protection". That's not acceptable and leaves the door open for business-as-usual by industrial logging operations in the midst of the Climate Crisis.