Taiwanese-American here. My family is Taiwanese Hokkien speaking and has lived on the island since at least the early 1800s, so we strongly identify as Taiwanese. I went to a college with a lot of Chinese exchange students and, as a freshman, was scared of stepping on a political tripwire by calling myself Taiwanese. But I soon found that if I told mainlanders I was Taiwanese, they would usually go on about how much they love Taipei, Taiwanese movies, food, etc. If I called myself Chinese, they would ask where my family is from, I would say Taiwan, and they would proceed to call me Taiwanese and talk about Taiwanese culture.
I'm not trying to insinuate that all Chinese people are secretly pro-Taiwan, but, at least among the upper-class students who will make up CCP leadership in the future, there is an understanding and appreciation that Taiwan is distinct. Because the CCP has tried to create a monolithic Han identity, Taiwan (and Hong Kong in the past) is a huge tourist destination for mainlanders precisely because its culture has deviated. It gives me some hope that the newer generations will figure out a peaceful solution to the situation.
Positioning ourselves to commit to defending Taiwan, as a fellow democratic nation, means disentangling critical supply chains from China, well, that seems like something we should do anyways. The China free trade gambit has clearly failed -- their government is becoming _more_ repressive, not less. It's impossible to listen to the truth about Xinjiang without being completely appalled that we allow the Chinese officials who have power over these policies to circulate freely in the US, buy property and invest, etc.
I'm surprised you don't write more about the economy of Taiwan, which is really interesting. For a start, they are among the richest and also among the most equal of rich societies. They have a much lower gini coefficient than China, and are nearly 9 times richer. How this happened is a really interesting story, some of which is told in my wife Isabelle Tsakok's book: Success in Agricultural Transformation (Cambridge U., 2011). One of the stories is the most successful land reform...
Taipei 101 is the best building in the world, in my opinion! It's a really great example of how a supertall skyscraper can have a unique, innovative, instantly recognizable design that doesn't fit into either "big slab" or "overly wavy space-age blob-spire". (Not that buildings in those two categories can't be someone's cup of tea either; tall buildings are good in general and there should be more of them.) It's also the world's largest LEED certified building.
I honestly think all the "but Taiwanese Hokkien is from China!" (it's a separate language from Mandarin but a dialect of Southern Min), "historically...", "culturally..." (and worst of all, "genetically...") arguments that support Taiwan being annexed to China miss the point. I could rebut every one of them, even the genetic one, but they miss the point.
The points that matter are:
1.) Taiwan is currently not a part of the PRC and never was, it governs itself
2.) Taiwan does not want to be a part of the PRC and probably never will.
3.) Taiwanese do not identify as Chinese, by and large (some do, and they are free to, which is great, but most who do choose both and prioritize Taiwanese identity, almost no one prioritizes or only chooses Chinese identity)
4.) The main reason the "Republic of China" still exists is that if it were changed, China's made it clear that would be seen as a formal declaration of independence, and they might choose to go to war over it. (In fact it's reasonably likely, though not a foregone conclusion, that they would.) There's still some internal debate but not as much as people think. Given the ability to freely choose without the spectre of war, I think the Republic of Taiwan would be ushered in fairly quickly. With some protest, of course, but that's democracy.
All of that points to Taiwan considering itself independent, and wanting to stay that way.
All the cultural, linguistic, historical or genetic (blergh) arguments in the world are not going to change that, and as far as I'm concerned, that Taiwan has made its views clear is the beginning and end of the conversation.
I am like you a huge fan of Taiwan, I went there last year before pandemic
To complete your paper:
-best taiwainese food is beef noodle
-I am currently reading Branko's latest, capitalism alone, and taiwan has also very little capital income inequality
- there are not only lots of green in taipei but you could do really great hiking just nearby the city in really green areas. I also recommand national parks
-I also recommand this nmovie available on netflix about taiwanese history and taiwan becoming more tolerant after end of martial law
Great article, I many of yours. I was listening to Ben Thompson (who resides there) say something like “on a map we’re right next to China but most Taiwanese feel like we’re off the coast of Californi”. Hope to visit Taipei one day.
If you're interested in reading some Taiwanese history, I recommend "Taiwan's Imagined Geography" by Emma Jinhua Teng. It describes how China viewed Taiwan from Ming onward, overall giving me the idea that Taiwan is sort of a Chinese colony (complete with a complicated relationship with the indigenous population they're displacing and the Motherland back home).
Taiwan is amazing, I'm a huge admirer. I've vaguely started to follow Taiwanese politics the last couple years after a trip there. Really get the sense that they don't take anything for granted.
Your point is that Taiwan is a different culture from PRC. And that is not surprising, since, in fact, the two have diverged, to put it mildly, for more than 100 years.
Unfortunately, any recognition of cultural differences between Taiwan and PRC has become political. ;-(
Re #2: What is true about Taipei unfortunately isn't always true for other parts of Taiwan. There's Taipei, and then there's the rest of the country (what some might call the Real Taiwan).
I moved here from the states ten months ago and can verify it’s nothing short of incredible. Top founders from all across the globe are converging here rn to work together in person during covid building the future: https://www.facebook.com/davefontenot/posts/10158206669154355
Noah - can you say more about your friends that moved to Taiwan? I'm curious what sort of work they're in that would enable them to make a move in the midst of a pandemic!
Taiwan is a civilization
Taiwanese-American here. My family is Taiwanese Hokkien speaking and has lived on the island since at least the early 1800s, so we strongly identify as Taiwanese. I went to a college with a lot of Chinese exchange students and, as a freshman, was scared of stepping on a political tripwire by calling myself Taiwanese. But I soon found that if I told mainlanders I was Taiwanese, they would usually go on about how much they love Taipei, Taiwanese movies, food, etc. If I called myself Chinese, they would ask where my family is from, I would say Taiwan, and they would proceed to call me Taiwanese and talk about Taiwanese culture.
I'm not trying to insinuate that all Chinese people are secretly pro-Taiwan, but, at least among the upper-class students who will make up CCP leadership in the future, there is an understanding and appreciation that Taiwan is distinct. Because the CCP has tried to create a monolithic Han identity, Taiwan (and Hong Kong in the past) is a huge tourist destination for mainlanders precisely because its culture has deviated. It gives me some hope that the newer generations will figure out a peaceful solution to the situation.
Positioning ourselves to commit to defending Taiwan, as a fellow democratic nation, means disentangling critical supply chains from China, well, that seems like something we should do anyways. The China free trade gambit has clearly failed -- their government is becoming _more_ repressive, not less. It's impossible to listen to the truth about Xinjiang without being completely appalled that we allow the Chinese officials who have power over these policies to circulate freely in the US, buy property and invest, etc.
I'm surprised you don't write more about the economy of Taiwan, which is really interesting. For a start, they are among the richest and also among the most equal of rich societies. They have a much lower gini coefficient than China, and are nearly 9 times richer. How this happened is a really interesting story, some of which is told in my wife Isabelle Tsakok's book: Success in Agricultural Transformation (Cambridge U., 2011). One of the stories is the most successful land reform...
Three (more cool) things (about Taiwan):
- Taiwan's National Bike trail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Cycling_Route_No.1#:~:text=1%20(%E7%92%B0%E5%B3%B61%E8%99%9F%E7%B7%9A,the%2Disland%2Dtrip%22.
- You can buy beer with Taipei's transit pass, Easycard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EasyCard
- You can surf there: https://magicseaweed.com/Taiwan-Surf-Forecast/88/
Taipei 101 is the best building in the world, in my opinion! It's a really great example of how a supertall skyscraper can have a unique, innovative, instantly recognizable design that doesn't fit into either "big slab" or "overly wavy space-age blob-spire". (Not that buildings in those two categories can't be someone's cup of tea either; tall buildings are good in general and there should be more of them.) It's also the world's largest LEED certified building.
I honestly think all the "but Taiwanese Hokkien is from China!" (it's a separate language from Mandarin but a dialect of Southern Min), "historically...", "culturally..." (and worst of all, "genetically...") arguments that support Taiwan being annexed to China miss the point. I could rebut every one of them, even the genetic one, but they miss the point.
The points that matter are:
1.) Taiwan is currently not a part of the PRC and never was, it governs itself
2.) Taiwan does not want to be a part of the PRC and probably never will.
3.) Taiwanese do not identify as Chinese, by and large (some do, and they are free to, which is great, but most who do choose both and prioritize Taiwanese identity, almost no one prioritizes or only chooses Chinese identity)
4.) The main reason the "Republic of China" still exists is that if it were changed, China's made it clear that would be seen as a formal declaration of independence, and they might choose to go to war over it. (In fact it's reasonably likely, though not a foregone conclusion, that they would.) There's still some internal debate but not as much as people think. Given the ability to freely choose without the spectre of war, I think the Republic of Taiwan would be ushered in fairly quickly. With some protest, of course, but that's democracy.
All of that points to Taiwan considering itself independent, and wanting to stay that way.
All the cultural, linguistic, historical or genetic (blergh) arguments in the world are not going to change that, and as far as I'm concerned, that Taiwan has made its views clear is the beginning and end of the conversation.
Great piece, man.
Really think you should consider making this 'get to know this little known (by us) places better ' a regular feature.
And it has a fantastic museum: the National Palace museum contains the very best of art from China’s imperial palaces.
I am like you a huge fan of Taiwan, I went there last year before pandemic
To complete your paper:
-best taiwainese food is beef noodle
-I am currently reading Branko's latest, capitalism alone, and taiwan has also very little capital income inequality
- there are not only lots of green in taipei but you could do really great hiking just nearby the city in really green areas. I also recommand national parks
-I also recommand this nmovie available on netflix about taiwanese history and taiwan becoming more tolerant after end of martial law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Your_Name_Engraved_Herein
- Taiwan has also the greatest museum of chinese history, even better than china's ones
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Palace_Museum
Taiwanese economic success is also underreported as well, I wish you could write a blog post more focused on it :)
Great article, I many of yours. I was listening to Ben Thompson (who resides there) say something like “on a map we’re right next to China but most Taiwanese feel like we’re off the coast of Californi”. Hope to visit Taipei one day.
If you're interested in reading some Taiwanese history, I recommend "Taiwan's Imagined Geography" by Emma Jinhua Teng. It describes how China viewed Taiwan from Ming onward, overall giving me the idea that Taiwan is sort of a Chinese colony (complete with a complicated relationship with the indigenous population they're displacing and the Motherland back home).
Taiwan is amazing, I'm a huge admirer. I've vaguely started to follow Taiwanese politics the last couple years after a trip there. Really get the sense that they don't take anything for granted.
Shelley Rigger's Why Taiwan Matters was pretty great and I got a lot out of it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/144220480X.
Great article!
Your point is that Taiwan is a different culture from PRC. And that is not surprising, since, in fact, the two have diverged, to put it mildly, for more than 100 years.
Unfortunately, any recognition of cultural differences between Taiwan and PRC has become political. ;-(
Re #2: What is true about Taipei unfortunately isn't always true for other parts of Taiwan. There's Taipei, and then there's the rest of the country (what some might call the Real Taiwan).
I moved here from the states ten months ago and can verify it’s nothing short of incredible. Top founders from all across the globe are converging here rn to work together in person during covid building the future: https://www.facebook.com/davefontenot/posts/10158206669154355
Noah - can you say more about your friends that moved to Taiwan? I'm curious what sort of work they're in that would enable them to make a move in the midst of a pandemic!