Wow, sadly this blew up with the Trumpers and your hypothesis of tribal signaling was lost.
I think that not only lying but also vandalism can be a form of tribal signaling. In my country and in Latin America more broadly, vandalization of public monuments has become a common form of protests by feminists, and it always brings many detractors in the general population. Possibly most of the population disagrees with it.
This is always done with the intent of revealing the "hypocrisy" of the public. But I think that the real explanation is this form of tribal signaling.
I want to say that I'm not above tribes and signaling: Humans are social animals, and we're all just humans.
I really like this last paragraph but one problem I do see is that as the economy got better and better under Obama they tried to respond to right wing criticism by saying it’s getting better but it’s not as good as it could be yet or other statements like that. It’s part of the asymmetry of honesty/lies that has become increasingly problematic for the Democratic Party. Hillary paid a price for being honest with coal miners and trump paid no price for lying though I think Trump lost in great part because he lied so much and so big that they were people willing to abandon him, but it’s clear that so many smaller lies do not hurt the republican party. I think your next blog should develop the idea of the WeAre a Gang mentality. Because I think people really vote for things like which restaurant you’re going to eat at and whether you should wear a mask. Unless someone makes clear to them that these things aren’t solved by voting for a politician, it’s gonna be hard to win over some of these kinds of voters. I have always secretly believed That a big part of Obama’s success was his embrace of sports and things like making picks for basketball that put him front and center on ESPN and other places where people who don’t pay a lot of attention to politics could see him and realize hey this is a good guy
Fantastically significant and noteworthy piece. Metaphorically, "signaling" is the GOP's Facebook account suddenly over-posting about at-cost deals on Ray-Ban sunglasses, and all their followers click on those ads.
Clearly, that page got hacked and now bad apps have proliferated to all their followers.
Will you please go through this same process with the lies told by Adam Schiff? I believe he made many many statements that he had evidence of collusion with Russia. Too bad it ended up that the testimonies that were done behind closed doors did not support his assertions. This happens on both sides, so please try to be honest with yourself and your readers.
Is anyone who is concerned about the integrity of this election a "nut-job"? Putting aside the rather juvenile ad hominem, don't we need to deal with both the reality and the perception of reality?
First, isn't it important that (apart from the most rabid left- and right-wingers) we emerge from this having our citizens trust the results of this election? As a Trump supporter, I can honestly say that I would rather see Biden win in an election that we perceive as legitimate than Trump win in an election that we believe is tainted.
Second, there are ample, legitimate reasons for concern about this election. I'm sure you're all well aware of these, so I won't recount them here. I will say, though, that I feel confident that those on the left will not begrudge Trump's decision to follow Hillary's advice to Biden (do not concede under any circumstances); although, as you will see, if the legal avenues are exhausted, Trump will freely transition out of office.
Provable instances of fraud or illegal vote counting appear unlikely to approach Biden's margin of victory, but the more insidious lie here is on the left--that there is absolutely positively no fraud or irregularities. Someone below pointed to Schiff and the Russia collusion resistance. I vote 3rd party, but media-backed leftist lies, such as the myth that police are racially targeting people for execution, are more dangerous than an obviously boastful blowhard the media and urban bubble-dwellers detest.
Why have so many Democrats and corporate media figures embraced Hillary Clinton's obviously made-up claims of Russian collusion? Rationally, they must know that all of the allegations are lies. Court after court, recount after recount, investigation after investigation has shown zero evidence of collusion. Yet the more the evidence against Clinton's lies piles up, the more figures on the left line up to publicly embrace the fiction.
I dunno. I'm less interested in this topic -- which seems about elite signaling -- than why the democratic party can't seem to find a way to choose policy issues that are winners for the median rust belt voter. It seems like US policy has kinda decided to just shrug its shoulders on investing in 40 million or so people in Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, W. Pa, and Upstate NY, and that seems like one of the stupidest possible decisions that could be made. If they aren't investing in those people and regions, they might as well just admit that they're prefer a Chinese hegemony where the rich in the US stay the rich.
I’m reading your article thinking you are missing the the real answer, but then u mention Rich Lowry.
As your token flyover country immersed with Trump voters, it absolutely is a big middle finger.
The polls say a huge percentage of people believe in the stolen election thing... or at least say it... but... where are the mass marches? There isn’t any (except for small gatherings of crockpots). They don’t really believe it... they just want to believe it, or more likely just want to be edgy and difficult. It’s all BS. In the real world, these Trump voters have moved on. I bet ratings are down on Fox already.
Have you seen the affidavits? Have you seen the evidence brought forth by Lin Wood? The media mocks everything that comes up without consideration and then repeats, no evidence.
One of the things I liked about Scott Alexander’s blog was that when he set out his claims he always linked to evidence. So I think your article would be improved a lot if eg you’d link to the right wing media types who have been supporting the claims. I’d sure like to know if they are more or less respectable types or the nutjob wing.
Wow, sadly this blew up with the Trumpers and your hypothesis of tribal signaling was lost.
I think that not only lying but also vandalism can be a form of tribal signaling. In my country and in Latin America more broadly, vandalization of public monuments has become a common form of protests by feminists, and it always brings many detractors in the general population. Possibly most of the population disagrees with it.
This is always done with the intent of revealing the "hypocrisy" of the public. But I think that the real explanation is this form of tribal signaling.
I want to say that I'm not above tribes and signaling: Humans are social animals, and we're all just humans.
I really like this last paragraph but one problem I do see is that as the economy got better and better under Obama they tried to respond to right wing criticism by saying it’s getting better but it’s not as good as it could be yet or other statements like that. It’s part of the asymmetry of honesty/lies that has become increasingly problematic for the Democratic Party. Hillary paid a price for being honest with coal miners and trump paid no price for lying though I think Trump lost in great part because he lied so much and so big that they were people willing to abandon him, but it’s clear that so many smaller lies do not hurt the republican party. I think your next blog should develop the idea of the WeAre a Gang mentality. Because I think people really vote for things like which restaurant you’re going to eat at and whether you should wear a mask. Unless someone makes clear to them that these things aren’t solved by voting for a politician, it’s gonna be hard to win over some of these kinds of voters. I have always secretly believed That a big part of Obama’s success was his embrace of sports and things like making picks for basketball that put him front and center on ESPN and other places where people who don’t pay a lot of attention to politics could see him and realize hey this is a good guy
Fantastically significant and noteworthy piece. Metaphorically, "signaling" is the GOP's Facebook account suddenly over-posting about at-cost deals on Ray-Ban sunglasses, and all their followers click on those ads.
Clearly, that page got hacked and now bad apps have proliferated to all their followers.
Will you please go through this same process with the lies told by Adam Schiff? I believe he made many many statements that he had evidence of collusion with Russia. Too bad it ended up that the testimonies that were done behind closed doors did not support his assertions. This happens on both sides, so please try to be honest with yourself and your readers.
Is anyone who is concerned about the integrity of this election a "nut-job"? Putting aside the rather juvenile ad hominem, don't we need to deal with both the reality and the perception of reality?
First, isn't it important that (apart from the most rabid left- and right-wingers) we emerge from this having our citizens trust the results of this election? As a Trump supporter, I can honestly say that I would rather see Biden win in an election that we perceive as legitimate than Trump win in an election that we believe is tainted.
Second, there are ample, legitimate reasons for concern about this election. I'm sure you're all well aware of these, so I won't recount them here. I will say, though, that I feel confident that those on the left will not begrudge Trump's decision to follow Hillary's advice to Biden (do not concede under any circumstances); although, as you will see, if the legal avenues are exhausted, Trump will freely transition out of office.
As usual, v good - thx
NYT weighed in on this a few days ago: t.ly/8F6v
Presumably the author will write a similar column discussing the left's claims of Russian collusion and the Kavanaugh accusations.
Provable instances of fraud or illegal vote counting appear unlikely to approach Biden's margin of victory, but the more insidious lie here is on the left--that there is absolutely positively no fraud or irregularities. Someone below pointed to Schiff and the Russia collusion resistance. I vote 3rd party, but media-backed leftist lies, such as the myth that police are racially targeting people for execution, are more dangerous than an obviously boastful blowhard the media and urban bubble-dwellers detest.
"Political lying as tribal signaling".
As evidence, I submit THIS article.
Why have so many Democrats and corporate media figures embraced Hillary Clinton's obviously made-up claims of Russian collusion? Rationally, they must know that all of the allegations are lies. Court after court, recount after recount, investigation after investigation has shown zero evidence of collusion. Yet the more the evidence against Clinton's lies piles up, the more figures on the left line up to publicly embrace the fiction.
I dunno. I'm less interested in this topic -- which seems about elite signaling -- than why the democratic party can't seem to find a way to choose policy issues that are winners for the median rust belt voter. It seems like US policy has kinda decided to just shrug its shoulders on investing in 40 million or so people in Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan, W. Pa, and Upstate NY, and that seems like one of the stupidest possible decisions that could be made. If they aren't investing in those people and regions, they might as well just admit that they're prefer a Chinese hegemony where the rich in the US stay the rich.
I’m reading your article thinking you are missing the the real answer, but then u mention Rich Lowry.
As your token flyover country immersed with Trump voters, it absolutely is a big middle finger.
The polls say a huge percentage of people believe in the stolen election thing... or at least say it... but... where are the mass marches? There isn’t any (except for small gatherings of crockpots). They don’t really believe it... they just want to believe it, or more likely just want to be edgy and difficult. It’s all BS. In the real world, these Trump voters have moved on. I bet ratings are down on Fox already.
Trumpers aren’t true believers.
Have you seen the affidavits? Have you seen the evidence brought forth by Lin Wood? The media mocks everything that comes up without consideration and then repeats, no evidence.
Obviously made up? It's not so obviously made up to me.
Lying about President Trump got him impeached, investigated and allowed Biden to win. So it works.
One of the things I liked about Scott Alexander’s blog was that when he set out his claims he always linked to evidence. So I think your article would be improved a lot if eg you’d link to the right wing media types who have been supporting the claims. I’d sure like to know if they are more or less respectable types or the nutjob wing.