Thanks for this interesting interview. Re: hierarchy and privilege - a colleague of mine who was hired to replace me when I retire was hired under the condition she would earn her econ doctorate. We work in state government and for that reason it took her nearly 3 years to get the chance to defend her dissertation (successfully!). That reason was her adviser wasn't interested in working with candidates that weren't going to pursue an academic career. Total BS!!
Claudia's experiences with the culture in macro sound eerily similar to stories I hear over in finance (academic, not market). It's definitely affected how I talk to my PhD students and prepare them for the job market.
Another problem with our nasty, hierarchical structure is that it makes change very slow; for example, over on Twitter there's been lots of talk about how economists have come around on the minimum wage, but we've taken a long time to do it, and it's moved slowly enough that I think it's less about having changed a lot of minds and more about the field advancing one retirement at a time.
Reading this article reminded me of some unpleasant experiences in government, having on more than a few occasions expressed opinions that were not orthodox and recieved firm and belittling punch downs. Every organization, every, is hierarchical Every organization develops its own world view and culture, whether it is in university departments, large or small companies, local government, state governmet, or federal government. But, what every organization or group I have ever been associated with has consistently valued over time has been orthodoxy.
Orthodoxy, of course, is always conservative in nature, whether or not the organization itself is conservative. Thus, getting fresh views a fair hearing is always more or less a trial for every organization or group especially in organizations that have done well historically, even in organizations whose aims are ostensibly liberal. The sense inside is that they have little to learn.
Really toxic organizations cultures are always a pain. In those one is not only beat down from the top down, but also laterally and from the botton up. The single most toxic organization I have ever had to work in was composed 85 percent of women. (Just gently reminding, that its not just dirty old farts.) And they knew it and pretty much did not care unless they were the target of the day. They not only imposed orthodoxy but were petty and despotic about it. In the end toxic organizations or groups always demand orthodoxy and are highly resistant to new ideas which are the life blood of progess.
It is not surprising to find demands for orthodoxy in ecconomics. What would be surprising is not to find demands for orthodoxy. What is always disconcerting is to find a truly toxic culture where beatdowns are pervasive, petty, and despotic.
@Noah -- I'm surprised you didn't ask Claudia about one of the theories I've seen you pose before: that economics will become less politically salient over time because Republicans find they can't use it as reliably to defend their preferred robber baron economic policies.
I wonder if there will ever be a academic version of codementor.io, where grad students can pay (not necessarily $$$) to get mentorship from non-professor PhDs . I don't think there would be money to be made, but it might be something graduates would volunteer to do for grad students.
Though I similarly wonder why no one has built a modded version of Econ Job Market Rumors. And that's probably obvious, since most of the point of EJMR is probably to be really rude in an anonymous way online.
I find it intensely amusing how people can describe the culture around economics like this and also believe that the current state of macro is where it is because it has been rigorously tested and debated. But by far the best line is "Money and respect just steadily pour in from outside..." They sure do! If you ever decide to question why that is you might consider Academic Choice Theory. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/04/blacklisted-economics-professor-found-dead-nc-publishes-his-last-letter.html
Claudia, been following you for over a year now. I have learned so much. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks for this interesting interview. Re: hierarchy and privilege - a colleague of mine who was hired to replace me when I retire was hired under the condition she would earn her econ doctorate. We work in state government and for that reason it took her nearly 3 years to get the chance to defend her dissertation (successfully!). That reason was her adviser wasn't interested in working with candidates that weren't going to pursue an academic career. Total BS!!
My LLC is called Rollicking Enterprises, solid word, largely underused.
Claudia's experiences with the culture in macro sound eerily similar to stories I hear over in finance (academic, not market). It's definitely affected how I talk to my PhD students and prepare them for the job market.
Another problem with our nasty, hierarchical structure is that it makes change very slow; for example, over on Twitter there's been lots of talk about how economists have come around on the minimum wage, but we've taken a long time to do it, and it's moved slowly enough that I think it's less about having changed a lot of minds and more about the field advancing one retirement at a time.
Reading this article reminded me of some unpleasant experiences in government, having on more than a few occasions expressed opinions that were not orthodox and recieved firm and belittling punch downs. Every organization, every, is hierarchical Every organization develops its own world view and culture, whether it is in university departments, large or small companies, local government, state governmet, or federal government. But, what every organization or group I have ever been associated with has consistently valued over time has been orthodoxy.
Orthodoxy, of course, is always conservative in nature, whether or not the organization itself is conservative. Thus, getting fresh views a fair hearing is always more or less a trial for every organization or group especially in organizations that have done well historically, even in organizations whose aims are ostensibly liberal. The sense inside is that they have little to learn.
Really toxic organizations cultures are always a pain. In those one is not only beat down from the top down, but also laterally and from the botton up. The single most toxic organization I have ever had to work in was composed 85 percent of women. (Just gently reminding, that its not just dirty old farts.) And they knew it and pretty much did not care unless they were the target of the day. They not only imposed orthodoxy but were petty and despotic about it. In the end toxic organizations or groups always demand orthodoxy and are highly resistant to new ideas which are the life blood of progess.
It is not surprising to find demands for orthodoxy in ecconomics. What would be surprising is not to find demands for orthodoxy. What is always disconcerting is to find a truly toxic culture where beatdowns are pervasive, petty, and despotic.
@Noah -- I'm surprised you didn't ask Claudia about one of the theories I've seen you pose before: that economics will become less politically salient over time because Republicans find they can't use it as reliably to defend their preferred robber baron economic policies.
I wonder if there will ever be a academic version of codementor.io, where grad students can pay (not necessarily $$$) to get mentorship from non-professor PhDs . I don't think there would be money to be made, but it might be something graduates would volunteer to do for grad students.
Though I similarly wonder why no one has built a modded version of Econ Job Market Rumors. And that's probably obvious, since most of the point of EJMR is probably to be really rude in an anonymous way online.
I find it intensely amusing how people can describe the culture around economics like this and also believe that the current state of macro is where it is because it has been rigorously tested and debated. But by far the best line is "Money and respect just steadily pour in from outside..." They sure do! If you ever decide to question why that is you might consider Academic Choice Theory. https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/04/blacklisted-economics-professor-found-dead-nc-publishes-his-last-letter.html
Thanks as always. An suggested reading on the historical debate over full employment?
Would love to hear CS's take on Christina Romer's 2008 memo in which she argued for a $1.8 trillion stimulus package only to have it buried by Chief Economic Adviser Larry Summers. https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/02/could-memo-christina-romer-have-saved-economy/331392/ Could it have saved the economy?
Great interview, but consider a light edit for clarity, consistency, and typos.