I used to do on campus OCS recruiting a few years back. The more elite/liberal the school, the worse reaction I would get. I’d get in discussions with bright kids who would ultimately want to talk about politics (when I just wanted to tell them about how I liked being a platoon commander and later battalion staff officer). Occasionally, after they got snotty and made some comment about how the military was too “right wing,” I’d say “you really sure you want to live in a country where the people with big guns and bombs are just right wing.” Unfortunately that last ditch line never got me a prospect, but it seems relevant now.
The Right has become insane but, as David Shor said recently, it's entirely rational to vote right if you don't like certain traits because you get the whole suite of traits when you go Left (including all of the bullshit) in a 2 party system. I worked with woke, Pronoun People for 9 years...it got pretty bad. Intolerable and unworkable if you're an independent thinker *because* of their culture of intolerance. I was literally fired because of wokeness, basically. Now I work with MAGAtards and they are kinda nutty politically but generally nice people and guess what? I don't ever have to worry about being fired for making some goofy jokes or not using someone's pronouns. You're constantly walking on eggshells when you're around Woke people. So, for me, it wasn't really an embracing of fear culture but instead a matter of practicality.
When I joined the National Guard, my father jokingly said that I was doing it out of "liberal guilt." A childhood friend (now an Army major) similarly joked that I was making myself a "human shield for American foreign policy." That is a way to say that I agree with you that more liberals should join the military.
But I want to understand why so few people do what I did.
Have you considered joining the reserves and if not, why not? (I don't think that it would interfere unduly with your career but if you disagree I'd also very much like to know why.) I understand that the question might seem hostile, so please know that I intend no snark, sarcasm, or implicit accusations of hypocrisy!
It looks like progressives are more concerned about police views than military views towards Trump or right-wing riots. Which makes some sense, because the police do a lot of the day to day work where public local order is concerned for Americans. I worry speculation about a civil war is a red herring, just as a full military-backed takeover of the federal government was the wrong thing to argue and speculate about in November.
So going forward, it might be better to consider The Troubles in Ireland as an example for what more insurrections at various state legislatures could look like. Michigan was a warning sign. The election conspiracy theories and social media coordination seem like the most alarming focal points. If your democracy is being stolen, it makes sense to get outraged and do *something*, and you can find likeminded people online to coordinate with, it becomes more likely to happen. These are critical elements to how a unique political actor like Trump incited this event on Jan 6th. Which is why Jan 6th has made me a lot more pessimistic; the state of things is a lot worse than I thought it was prior to this event.
Noah, I only found you because of Curtis Yarvin. I’ve read many of your past posts and new posts over the weeks. I’m not sarcastically following you or here to troll. I am genuinely openminded and read everyone, even if their views are on the opposite ends of the universe.
“The paradox of tolerance” applies just as aptly (and far more dangerously) to progressivism and extreme wokeness as it does to actual Nazis.
Progressivism is at heart a politics of intolerance. It justifies itself by saying that it is intolerant of intolerance, but that is just turtles all the way down.
It is really intolerance of the preferences of historical Western society, and a preference and tolerance of anything that opposes and destroys any vestiges of that society.
The thing about neoliberalism is that it makes life worse and worse for most people. Life getting worse and worse for most people is why people become Nazi's.
"[The US Left's ideological opposition to the US military] needs to go by the wayside." Why? You don't really give an actual reason why leftists should stop opposing the most powerful military on the planet, responsible for everything from the brutal repression of the Phillippines to the firebombing of Dresden to the napalming of Vietnam to Abu Ghraib and the rapes of Haditha. The hint seems to be that the US is such a failed society that we should cling to the only institution now capable of producing racial/social integration.
Though you haven't said this explicitly, the way you discuss this topic gives me the impression that you are letting American conservatives off of the hook because they are fueled by fear. But every fascist movement has fear as an element of public mobilization. The MAGA movement is a fascist movement and the republican party at large flirts and caucuses with fascists the same way that every other conservative party has always done. Pretty much every fascist power grab was preceded by a temporary alliance with the establishment that got out of hand (usually to counter socialists). This could very easily have been a beer hall putsch moment.
One way that the Right wing militias can over match the US Military is if the U.S. military become 50% female or LGBTQ, as in 50% Female or LGBTQ in combat positions. 100% of the U.S. military being composed of Females or LGBTQ would be even better. For the good of Humanity, we hope that this happens soon. The U.S. military should immediately start getting rid of Toxic masculinity in its ranks. In fact it should just get rid of masculinity altogether.
First off, yea I guess there were some “skinheads” in the punk scene in the 80’s, but you’d be hard pressed to find any of their music. In fact I’ve never heard a punk or metal song about killing Jews specifically, and I’ve heard a lot of this music, been to real life shows, etc. Christians on the other hand….
There are plenty of openly Satanic metal bands, and there are plenty of punk bands calling for the overthrow of Society and USG. Do I even have to link to them? You know they’re there.
Another point I’d like to make about punk music is that it really hasn’t changed much at all since the 70s. They still wear the same fucking outfits, their music is still about how much capitalism sucks and the US government is oppressing people, in music theory terms they haven’t innovated or changed anything. It’s technologically backwards and the people who make it are smelly weirdos.
Well, there is at one thing that I think Mr.Smith gets wrong in this and a couple of other posts. I am certain that it is not only him, so I would like to make a small remark if that's alright.
The scenario of FBI+Military+CIA+Every-cop-like-face-in-the-US vs Far-right militias is way too unrealistic. In fact, this almost never happens in real civil wars. Real full-scale civil wars include government structures splitting and new armies being created. I don't really see why it matters if Trump is supported by 55% or 45% of soldiers. It's not like they are going to have a vote about what side to fight on. In the end (and as someone from a country currently engulfed in a war, I wish you to never see it) it's every soldier for himself.
As Syrian war shows, the defectors do not even need to be generals or high-level politicians to get the conflict started. Most of the elite stayed loyal. On a related note, I am also pretty certain that if a real civil war starts in the US, there will be many foreign powers willing to help the weaker side, just to keep the US occupied. So what I'm trying to say is that there are two scenarios:
1) There are no mass defections, political and military elite is united -> There is no civil war
2) Some part of elite defects (again, it doesn't have to be large) -> There is a possibility of civil war
The posts that speculate about militias getting crashed by the government describe situation 1. But in that case, there just wouldn't be a war in the first place, so it's seems meaningless to study this scenario. Mass surveillance is too powerful to even start anything big. If you ever see local governors arming national guard to attack FBI facilities, then you will know that the war is about to start. Of course, it would be too late at this point :)
What you might be thinking about is insurgency, not civil war. Perhaps it is a possibility, but it really doesn't look like it can be sustained in a modern first-world country.
I used to do on campus OCS recruiting a few years back. The more elite/liberal the school, the worse reaction I would get. I’d get in discussions with bright kids who would ultimately want to talk about politics (when I just wanted to tell them about how I liked being a platoon commander and later battalion staff officer). Occasionally, after they got snotty and made some comment about how the military was too “right wing,” I’d say “you really sure you want to live in a country where the people with big guns and bombs are just right wing.” Unfortunately that last ditch line never got me a prospect, but it seems relevant now.
The Right has become insane but, as David Shor said recently, it's entirely rational to vote right if you don't like certain traits because you get the whole suite of traits when you go Left (including all of the bullshit) in a 2 party system. I worked with woke, Pronoun People for 9 years...it got pretty bad. Intolerable and unworkable if you're an independent thinker *because* of their culture of intolerance. I was literally fired because of wokeness, basically. Now I work with MAGAtards and they are kinda nutty politically but generally nice people and guess what? I don't ever have to worry about being fired for making some goofy jokes or not using someone's pronouns. You're constantly walking on eggshells when you're around Woke people. So, for me, it wasn't really an embracing of fear culture but instead a matter of practicality.
This is the problem we've made for ourselves.
When I joined the National Guard, my father jokingly said that I was doing it out of "liberal guilt." A childhood friend (now an Army major) similarly joked that I was making myself a "human shield for American foreign policy." That is a way to say that I agree with you that more liberals should join the military.
But I want to understand why so few people do what I did.
Have you considered joining the reserves and if not, why not? (I don't think that it would interfere unduly with your career but if you disagree I'd also very much like to know why.) I understand that the question might seem hostile, so please know that I intend no snark, sarcasm, or implicit accusations of hypocrisy!
Being intolerant of the intolerant is a crucial point. Thanks.
It looks like progressives are more concerned about police views than military views towards Trump or right-wing riots. Which makes some sense, because the police do a lot of the day to day work where public local order is concerned for Americans. I worry speculation about a civil war is a red herring, just as a full military-backed takeover of the federal government was the wrong thing to argue and speculate about in November.
So going forward, it might be better to consider The Troubles in Ireland as an example for what more insurrections at various state legislatures could look like. Michigan was a warning sign. The election conspiracy theories and social media coordination seem like the most alarming focal points. If your democracy is being stolen, it makes sense to get outraged and do *something*, and you can find likeminded people online to coordinate with, it becomes more likely to happen. These are critical elements to how a unique political actor like Trump incited this event on Jan 6th. Which is why Jan 6th has made me a lot more pessimistic; the state of things is a lot worse than I thought it was prior to this event.
Noah, I only found you because of Curtis Yarvin. I’ve read many of your past posts and new posts over the weeks. I’m not sarcastically following you or here to troll. I am genuinely openminded and read everyone, even if their views are on the opposite ends of the universe.
“The paradox of tolerance” applies just as aptly (and far more dangerously) to progressivism and extreme wokeness as it does to actual Nazis.
Progressivism is at heart a politics of intolerance. It justifies itself by saying that it is intolerant of intolerance, but that is just turtles all the way down.
It is really intolerance of the preferences of historical Western society, and a preference and tolerance of anything that opposes and destroys any vestiges of that society.
The thing about neoliberalism is that it makes life worse and worse for most people. Life getting worse and worse for most people is why people become Nazi's.
"[The US Left's ideological opposition to the US military] needs to go by the wayside." Why? You don't really give an actual reason why leftists should stop opposing the most powerful military on the planet, responsible for everything from the brutal repression of the Phillippines to the firebombing of Dresden to the napalming of Vietnam to Abu Ghraib and the rapes of Haditha. The hint seems to be that the US is such a failed society that we should cling to the only institution now capable of producing racial/social integration.
Hey, interesting seeing my tweet in here! You are correct Noah - I would very much prefer to stop Nazis than yammer about neoliberalism
-Stephen L.
Though you haven't said this explicitly, the way you discuss this topic gives me the impression that you are letting American conservatives off of the hook because they are fueled by fear. But every fascist movement has fear as an element of public mobilization. The MAGA movement is a fascist movement and the republican party at large flirts and caucuses with fascists the same way that every other conservative party has always done. Pretty much every fascist power grab was preceded by a temporary alliance with the establishment that got out of hand (usually to counter socialists). This could very easily have been a beer hall putsch moment.
"what america will be after trump is gone"
>images from conservative authoritarian ethnostate
> like Mao letting Chiang Kai-Shek do the heavy lifting of fighting the Japanese in WW2
Mao actually colluded with the Japanese and sold out Chiang's KMT
Source: https://www.japanpolicyforum.jp/diplomacy/pt20160517095311.html
One way that the Right wing militias can over match the US Military is if the U.S. military become 50% female or LGBTQ, as in 50% Female or LGBTQ in combat positions. 100% of the U.S. military being composed of Females or LGBTQ would be even better. For the good of Humanity, we hope that this happens soon. The U.S. military should immediately start getting rid of Toxic masculinity in its ranks. In fact it should just get rid of masculinity altogether.
First off, yea I guess there were some “skinheads” in the punk scene in the 80’s, but you’d be hard pressed to find any of their music. In fact I’ve never heard a punk or metal song about killing Jews specifically, and I’ve heard a lot of this music, been to real life shows, etc. Christians on the other hand….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OsHcegl8tg (Deicide – Kill The Christian)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmDRkXsplHA&list=PLNdLvPfz5nY9lIcxqDi8IGQjH5llPdH29 (Infant Annihilator – Crucifilth)
There are plenty of openly Satanic metal bands, and there are plenty of punk bands calling for the overthrow of Society and USG. Do I even have to link to them? You know they’re there.
for good measure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga5ZbMMZ6Hk (Bad Brains -Self-Titled 1982 album ) Check out the album cover btw
Another point I’d like to make about punk music is that it really hasn’t changed much at all since the 70s. They still wear the same fucking outfits, their music is still about how much capitalism sucks and the US government is oppressing people, in music theory terms they haven’t innovated or changed anything. It’s technologically backwards and the people who make it are smelly weirdos.
Well, there is at one thing that I think Mr.Smith gets wrong in this and a couple of other posts. I am certain that it is not only him, so I would like to make a small remark if that's alright.
The scenario of FBI+Military+CIA+Every-cop-like-face-in-the-US vs Far-right militias is way too unrealistic. In fact, this almost never happens in real civil wars. Real full-scale civil wars include government structures splitting and new armies being created. I don't really see why it matters if Trump is supported by 55% or 45% of soldiers. It's not like they are going to have a vote about what side to fight on. In the end (and as someone from a country currently engulfed in a war, I wish you to never see it) it's every soldier for himself.
As Syrian war shows, the defectors do not even need to be generals or high-level politicians to get the conflict started. Most of the elite stayed loyal. On a related note, I am also pretty certain that if a real civil war starts in the US, there will be many foreign powers willing to help the weaker side, just to keep the US occupied. So what I'm trying to say is that there are two scenarios:
1) There are no mass defections, political and military elite is united -> There is no civil war
2) Some part of elite defects (again, it doesn't have to be large) -> There is a possibility of civil war
The posts that speculate about militias getting crashed by the government describe situation 1. But in that case, there just wouldn't be a war in the first place, so it's seems meaningless to study this scenario. Mass surveillance is too powerful to even start anything big. If you ever see local governors arming national guard to attack FBI facilities, then you will know that the war is about to start. Of course, it would be too late at this point :)
What you might be thinking about is insurgency, not civil war. Perhaps it is a possibility, but it really doesn't look like it can be sustained in a modern first-world country.